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Death Knight Blog #2
Myrx — Tue, 10/07/2008 - 3:18pm
It's been a while since my last blog post. I have, however, been pretty busy. I have tanked every 5 man and most of the Heroic dungeons. I have also Main Tanked a few Naxx 10 runs, a CoA 10, off-tanked a Naxx 25, and a CoA 25. I have been a few variations of Unholy, and Frost throughout this.
The sum of my experiences is that I enjoy boss tanking as Frost more than any other spec. I'll link my proposed spec and Glyphs.
Glyphs
- Glyph of Pestilence - Minor - Increases the radius of your Pestilence effect by 5 yards.
- Glyph of Blood Tap - Minor - Your Blood Tap no longer causes damage to you.
- Glyph of Horn of Winter - Minor - Horn of Winter costs 10 less runic power.
- Glyph of Unbreakable Armor - Major - Unbreakable Armor grants an additional 5% parry chance but no longer increases your Strength.
- Glyph of Dark Command - Major - Increases the chance for your Dark Command ability to work successfully by 8%.
- Glyph of Death Strike - Major - Your Death Strike's damage and healing increase by 2% for every 5 runic power you currently have. The runic power is not consumed by this effect.
When I have enough hit to make Glyph of Dark Command unneeded I will replace it with likely an Obliterate Glyph.
Talents
Spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0350000000000000000000000003...
I chose this spec because I think Lichborne, Acclimation, Unbreakable Armor, Frost Aura, and Frigid Dreadplate make the best tanking package. I chose Hungering Cold over Deathchill because I feel that Hungering Cold can be useful for mitigation on AOE packs especially if you're the only one doing damage to most of them.
If you are wondering why I did not pick up Icy Talons and Improved Icy Talons it is because currently they are extremely over budget, and I feel that with a tanking spec I need my points to count. It is over budget because Icy Talons does NOT stack with Windfury/Improved Icy Talons so if someone in the raid is dropping a 20% Windfury Totem you just spent 6 talent points on 5% haste.
I picked up Epidemic because sometimes your rune rotations go longer than 10 seconds, especially if you have a lot of Frost Strikes to cram in. I grabbed Subversion to buff Blood Strike and Obliterate some more.
Recent Changes
Blade Barrier now increase your parry chance by 2/4/6/8/10% for 10 seconds whenever your Blood Runes are on cooldown. (Old - Only worked whenever you had no runes active)
- I love this change. As long as you have both Blood runes on cooldown every rune you use until one of them is back up refreshes Blade Barrier. Hello 100% uptime.
Dark Command's range has been increased to 20 yards. (Up from 5 yards)
- Amazing change. It should save a lot of lives, and could even make a decent pulling tool giving the 8 second cooldown.
Frost Presence - The death knight takes on the presence of frost, increasing total health by 10%, armor contribution from items by 60% (Up from 45%), and reducing spell damage taken by 5%. Increases threat generated.
- The increase in armor was definitely needed to put our mitigation in line with the other tanking classes. This should put Death Knights in the number two spot as far as armor goes second only to Druids, but not by much. This will also make items with armor that much better for us.
Black Ice now Increases your Frost damage by 6/12/18/24/30%.
- Great buff for Frost specced Death Knights. Icy Touch feels worth using, and Frost Strike hits very hard now.
Frost Strike can't be dodged, blocked, or parried anymore.
- Amazing for tanking. I love knowing that my Runic Power dump is going to land. This plus the Blade Barrier change makes extending a rune rotation to dump your Runic Power not a big problem.
Tundra Stalker now increases the damage of Icy Touch by 5/10/15/20/25%, and 1 more Expertise per rank.
- Gotta love the extra Frost damage. It's going to buff Obliterate and Howling Blast soon too, and 10 expertise for 5 talents is amazing as well.
Rune Strike has been changed to Strike the target for 200% weapon damage plus [ 20% of AP ]. Only usable after an attack is dodged or parried. Can't be dodged, blocked, or parried.
- Biggest change so far. This is now the ultimate tanking ability. I can only hope that they alter our two-piece tanking bonus to go off of Rune Strike now instead of Plague Strike.
Overall they made some changes that made tanks lives easier. Being able to count on Frost Strike and Rune Strike landing is huge for threat generation, and the extra expertise in deep Frost will help ensure smooth rune rotations. Add 5 expertise for Orcs using axes, and you're looking at 15 base Expertise which I believe is -3.75% dodge and parry.
Tanking Weapons
Some people are pushing to get two-handers with tanking stats put in the game, but I don't ever see that happening. We're expected to tank with the same weapons that DPS Warriors, Retribution Paladins, and DPS Death Knights use. That being said since Kel'thuzad items have the highest item level he also drops the best weapons for tanking in both tiers of raiding. They both happen to be axes.
Race
I'm leaning Orc at this point. The fact that both end game weapons right now are axes, the fact that my ghoul gets 5% extra damage, Blood Fury is great for DPS, and Hardiness is excellent on anything that stuns. This coupled with the fact that Tauren HP got nerfed, and that two of their racials completely suck (herbalism and nature resist).
Professions
I will be going Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting. I like the added flexibility to pad pretty much whatever stat I want to on any of my sets. I feel Enchanting doesn't have enough options. This should let me stack defense hard early on, and then switch it to something else once my gear pans out.
Leveling
I see myself going Unholy for leveling. With good use of Death Strike and perma-ghoul there's very little down time. I will likely try to nab a Glyph of the Ghoul (Your Ghoul receives an additional 20% of your Strength.) for added efficiency. However, leveling with a perma-ghoul is pretty much the most amazing thing ever.
I hope this blog was useful to some people. If you have any questions feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Anonymous — Thu, 10/09/2008 - 6:17pmReally great post.
Race
Originally I planned on going tauren, but the hp nerf hurt and as you mention their other racials aren't that great. Orc is a strong possibility for me, but I'm leaning towards BE right now. The 2% spell resist, the 2seconds AE silence, and the on call runic power boost are all very tempting.
Have you tried a BE at all? Have there been situations where the +15 runic power off the global would have proven useful?
Spec
Is your spec built around primarily being a MT? It's very similar to a build I was going to try, but I'm also tempted by an unholy build. The unholy build felt like a better fit for OT'n + utility and then MT'n certain specific encounters. You mentioned having done unholy builds as well and I was curious if you could elaborate on the situations that make you lean toward the frost build currently.
Talents
Killing Machine - I have two questions about the talent. The wording is similar to when it was a 100% chance and makes it appear that your next special will have exactly a 50% chance to crit. I'd assume this is a 50% *increased* chance to crit. However the tooltip isn't currently worded as: "The crit strike chance of your next x,y,z is increased by 10/20.../50% after landing a crit auto attack", so I wanted to confirm.
Additionally, how does killing machine interact with the new rune strike? The change to rune strike is wonderful, but assuming a standard 3.4(ish) speed 2h while tanking you only have about 17 "auto attacks" per minute to begin with. If 1/3 to 1/2 of those are being turned into "rune strikes" then your auto attacks per minute will be quite low and on top of that they still have to crit.
If killing machine is losing effectiveness because of the new rune strike, then perhaps the talent should be updated to something akin to "Whenever you land a crit strike with an auto attack *OR* a rune strike, the crit strike chance of your next x,y,z is increased by 10/20/..../50%".
Frigid Dreadplate - It was recently reported that this was changing to a flat 1/2/3% chance to be missed. This feels kinda "meh" (it helps, but still...'meh') and I was wondering if there was a chance of this maybe having something added to it, ex:
Every little bit helps while tanking, but for a talent 20+ points into the tree I think it doing a bit more would be great.
Acclimation - It's been reported that this will soon buff rune strike and I was curious if you had gotten to test this change yet. Additionally, do you often find yourself with a 3 stack going? It'll depend, of course, on the encounter and situation, but my fear was having situations where lots of bosses toss out one big nuke every 20 seconds and acclimation is basically rendered useless.
Shockingly enough this isn't all of it, but I think that's enough for one reply. 8P
Thanks again for taking the time to share this information.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Myrx — Mon, 10/13/2008 - 4:27pmI actually leveled a BE from 55 to 80 on the Northrend realm. The builds I usually play don't typically leave me wishing for more runic power. With the change to Blood Fury not having a healing debuff 332 AP at 80 is a nice little ability to have. You'd likely get more out of that than Arcane Torrent.
Yeah, it is built around that. My napkin math indicates Frost has the best overall damage reduction, and I feel like it has the best single target threat as well. All of the specs work for everything really, but for AOE tanking Frost is a bit more interactive than Unholy. You have to distribute the Frost Strikes out as opposed to simply activating Unholy Blight. A much more fun play style in my opinion.
50% of the time you get a buff that makes your next ability 100% crit.
I also have no idea how they interact as I typically don't take Killing Machine.
I like this talent a lot. I think that it was changed so that it could stack with the Hunter's Scorpid Sting. I could be wrong about this, and even if I am it lets the Hunter use a damage sting instead if a Frost DK is tanking, and it makes a Frost DK that much stronger when no Hunter is around.
As far as I know the Rune Strike interaction hasn't been pushed to Beta yet. They still also need to update our two-piece tanking bonus, but they haven't actually said they were going to. As far as a three stack going it's pretty easy on a fight like Sapphiron or on Lady or Sir on Four Horseman. Other than that it's kind of hit or miss. It really just depends on the frequency the mob or mobs are using spells on you.
I've also been playing with this spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0050000000000000000000000003...
Slight variation of my old spec. It should spell hit cap me in raids when I two-hand cap myself at 9%. It also has Epidemic for flexibility, and Vicious Strikes for added emphasis on Death Strike, which is a very useful tanking mitigation and threat tool.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Anonymous — Tue, 10/14/2008 - 2:55pmThanks for the nice follow-up. Originally I didn't have time for beta, and now I just don't have access. 8(
Runic Power
Since I haven't been able to test things out personally I'm more speculating based upon various things I've heard. Last I saw single rune abilities generate 10 runic power, double runes are 15, and D&D is 20 base. Is that the case? Then things like IT glyph and talents will raise those numbers by 5/10 for the appropriate abilities.
You mentioned AE tanking and that is one of the spots where I wonder about the extra +15 runic power. On a rotation like:
For unholy spec you have 50 runic power base(assuming the above numbers are correct). Having the IT glyph would let you UB at this point, but you are still several seconds into the fight and are now without RP to use other abilities. Having the on call +15RP would let you get to UB a couple of seconds faster. In practice this might not be much of an issue and the extra +atk power from BF might prove more useful in the long run.
AE rotation
On AE pulls frost seems to have a few more options because of HB. I was curious if you use a more standard D&D rotation when AE'n with frost or if you forgo D&D and use HB/BB more to begin with. I know D&D has some extra threat rolled into it, but I wasn't sure if it was sufficent or worth giving up on HB in the first rotation.
Hungering Cold
This talent has me all over the place. I've heard a lot of conflicting reports and I see tons of potential for it, but right now it feels off.
Does it still take 60 runic power to activate? It feels clunky to go through an entire rune rotation to start an AE pull before you have enough runic power to use your AE 51pt talent. This talent is part of the reason why I thought the +15 RP for BEs might be useful as you get to HC faster.
Does frost fever get applied all targets even if the CC doesn't take effect? I'd heard that it might not be.
I've also heard there was talk about possible changes to HC, but I wasn't sure what they might be. As I said the talent seems full of potential, but I fear that in actual use it will fall short.
Presences
Do the presences still cost a rune? I remember awhile back when DKs could customize their rune configuration they liked having presences cost a rune of a certain type so players didn't have BBBBBB or FFFFFF type rune configurations. Now that all DKs have BBFFUU rune configurations the potential cost on presences concerns me.
I don't want to be stance dancing a bunch like a warrior can, but to have options to:
without messing up a rotation would be really nice. If presences still cost a rune, has there been any talk about potentially removing that cost? I'd even be ok with a static cooldown as I don't see bouncing between presences a lot. However, it'd be nice to change a time or two in a big pull/fight as optimal.
Last one: Frost/Unholy
My napkin math has frost ahead as well and lately I've felt a bit more drawn to it. However, unholy has a lot of potential because of the bone shield mechanic. Being able to prebuff boneshield and have it available again early in a rotation can be fantastic. Additionally, bone shield has some great scaling due to avoidance/luck; in addition to a great glyph.
I'm also curious how frigid dreadplate will be changed. Last I heard it was just going to be 1/2/3% more physical avoidance, which although nice, isn't amazing that far into the tree. What the final version of that becomes and what (if any) changes hungering cold sees will likely play a big part in my decision.
Other than the, potentially, slightly better tanking is there anything that draws you to frost over unholy? If unholy winds up being "slightly" ahead would you re-spec, or do you prefer frost enough to forgo a marginal tanking increase. (Talking a very small difference in this case, obviously a large enough difference would require a re-spec for the sake of the guild).
I know some of this is very basic and I hate having you rehash it (I'd test it myself if I could). The information is very useful though and I again thank you for sharing.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Myrx — Wed, 10/15/2008 - 2:56pmWhen I was Unholy I used an Icy Touch Glyph so that I could UB at the end of my rotations. It's probably still a good glyph for Frost but I don't have good enough Icy Touch and Frost Strike numbers to do the math right now. 10% Icy Touch damage is less than 25% Frost Strike damage, but is there a better gain from another glyph? I was planning on using Death Strike, Unbreakable Armor, and Obliterate (helps a lot on immune), but I may swap that Obliterate for an Icy Touch if I think I need the RP boost.
I also always throw down DnD at the start of pulls. It's the best and fastest way to establish AOE threat before someone pulls agro.
I don't typically use HC on CD. I use it as a mitigation tool. If I'm getting railed I can throw it down, and it can help me get topped off. If people aren't AOEing they will stay frozen even if they are diseased.
Presences still cost a rune. I generally find if you're playing a DPS spec that's very GCD intensive it's better DPS to play in Unholy, but otherwise Blood. I've had to swap Frost and pick up Maexxna before, but they won't remove the cost on Presences. It would be far too strong if you could swap them every GCD.
Yes, at high gear levels (read avoidance) Bone Armor becomes very amazing. I may or may not switch, but I'm not exactly married to Frost. I'll probably play what I think is the best for what I'm doing. It may be Frost, or it may be Unholy, but I doubt it will ever be Blood.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Anonymous — Wed, 10/15/2008 - 7:15pmThe way I see the IT glyph is that it turns 1 IT into 2.5 frost strikes (dmg to RP, RP to dmg wise). Without knowing the numbers I can't say for sure how good that is, but it seems pretty solid. Of course, that has to weighed against what another glyph would have given. The extra 5% parry on the other glyph is nice, but I'm not sure how useful it would be. I guess this leads to a bigger question...
Do you find yourself having more issues with survivability or threat while tanking? The recent patch did a lot to help survivability, so I'm curious if you find yourself having more threat based issues or survivability issues at this point.
You mentioned capping hit and that can be very useful. Do you see yourself opting for some +threat stats like hit and expertise once you are capped on defense? Looking at the early raid gear there seems to be a dab of most stats, so I'm curious which stats might be gemmed for early on.
As I said I don't want to juggle presences non-stop. That could be abused. I figured a small cooldown on the presence would be enough to allow some flexibility during a fight, without letting things get out of hand. *shrugs*
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Myrx — Thu, 10/16/2008 - 2:04amI've never been pulled off of on a boss. Ever. I figure I might as well increase my survivability. If I use UA every time it's up thats 5% more Parry 1/3 of the time.
Part of the reason why I intend to go BS and JC is for flexibility. I can stack Defense early on, and once the gear starts providing more innate Defense I can switch my gems to something else like hit if I see fit.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Anonymous — Thu, 10/16/2008 - 10:28amGood to know about the threat.
I've been leaning towards JC with the epic gems matching all colors and the nice tanking trinket(s) early on.
Does BS only get one extra socket for themselves or two extra sockets for themselves?
Enchanting is the other tradeskill I'm considering at the moment. With +24sta to rings and always having someone to DE it's tempting. I'll look into BS a bit more and see what it specifically grants.
In terms of obliterate how big a part does the disease damage play? I've done some napkin math, but was wondering if you had some 0, 1, 2 disease numbers. Would help me in deciding whether to take that glyph or not.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Myrx — Thu, 10/16/2008 - 2:05pmBS get two additional sockets (gloves and bracers). Also the Glyph of Obliterate is always better with two diseases up past I think 700 something weapon damage. It just gets better with less diseases up, but if you're tanking you're probably using Death Strike a lot so I would probably not Glyph both.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Anonymous — Thu, 10/16/2008 - 2:27pmHrmmm...hadn't really thought about death strike a lot. It's great in some situations, but I figured I'd use it more as a spot heal while the healer(s) were CC'd or busy healing others following special attacks. Do you find yourself using it a lot as part of your normal rotation?
For the JC/BS do you know what level the new expansion combines become available? I think I read 350/360(ish) that'd help a lot as 360+ can be a lot of mats for some of the tradeskills. If I can just get the materials together for 1-350 and then do 350+ on expansion combines that'd be great.
Thanks again, I might actually be out of questions at this point. 8P
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Myrx — Thu, 10/16/2008 - 3:08pmDeath Strike generates more TPS than any other FU ability because you are getting the threat from the damage, and the threat from the healing. Basically use Death Strike for TPS/Mitigation and use Scourge Strike/Obliterate for DPS. It just depends on what you need really. However, with Runic Power Mastery and the Death Strike Glyph you could theoretically gain 52% additional damage on Death Strikes (if you were sitting at 130 RP). I've seen a chart that mapped out the TPS gain from Death Strike compared to the other FU abilities, and it was top at 2 diseases, and only got a bigger lead with more diseases. Obviously on an immune boss like Sapphiron you'd use Obliterate/Scourge Strike.
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Anonymous — Sun, 11/09/2008 - 11:11pmJust out of curiosity, if you were to go Unholy for tanking (to take advantage of bone armor), what would your spec look like?
Re: Death Knight Blog #2
Anonymous — Wed, 01/21/2009 - 12:55pmThe Best DK talents:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/deathknight/talents.htm...