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It's Been Two Weeks

Myrx — Wed, 11/26/2008 - 4:31pm

Since hitting 80 on 11/16 I have been pretty busy. Once I woke up from my coma I immediately began running heroics. Grinding the various reputations up to Revered with my tabards, and collecting the tanking drops, and reputation rewards along the way. I went in to my first 10 man Naxx as a tank with 489 Defense. Yes, this means that I was crittable. However, the run went very smoothly.

I've tanked every heroic multiple times, all of the 10 man bosses in Naxx, most of the 25 man bosses in Naxx, and I can say that it feels extremely viable. I feel easy to heal, and the gameplay is fun and engaging. It doesn't feel like any of the tank classes are the dominant class, but rather each of us excel at different encounters. For example, I am very good at picking up adds, especially on Sartharion, and I am very good on fights with periods of no healing such as Maexxna and Loatheb. When I soak Hatefuls on Patchwerk I take less damage than the melee tank.

With all current content cleared I am searching for further ways to challenge myself. I will be working hard on the achievement "Glory of the Hero", and I'd like to kill Sartharion in 10 and 25 man with three drakes up.

I'm not sure how many people read this blog, and I'm not sure what those that do want to know about, so feel free to address that in the comments.

  • Myrx's blog

Re: It's Been Two Weeks

Anonymous — Thu, 11/27/2008 - 8:59am

Got an essay(full of questions) coming your way =)

Re: It's Been Two Weeks

Bunnay — Mon, 12/01/2008 - 5:58am

Just want to add that we have a class forum here:

http://www.gcguild.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=36

that anyone can post on if you feel like discussing class mechanics/ideas/concerns with out members.

Re: It's Been Two Weeks

Anonymous — Thu, 11/27/2008 - 12:56pm

I check this blog fairly frequently and I do it to hear experiences and hopefully some game theory. Much like you I hit 80 and started grinding instances/heroics and rep. Unlike you, I'm "trying" to be more casual this expansion. It's hard because everything has been pretty easy and the content seems to melt away. However, I'm at least trying to slow things down a bit so I don't find myself in the situation you are in now.

Here are a few of the things I've run into and thought about. Some of these are potential class changes, some of them are spec/number related issues, etc.

Specs
I've run a few different specs at this point for dps and tanking. There are some talents that are better than I expected and a few that have really disappointed me. One thing to discussion might be some of the specs you've used, why you skip certain talents, or new talents you find very useful.

For me I check recount after each instance run and certain bosses and I was very surprised to see where certain talents fell. For instance, wandering plague even with 20%+ crit and AE'n almost every single pull wasn't nearly as much of a damage boost as I'd expected.

AMZ is another talent that is situational and that I've played around with in some specs. In most PvE cases it drops super fast, but it can help on certain fights. I'm also a pretty big fan of the pre-req's boost to AMS + AMS glyph. 10 seconds out of every 75 vs 5 out of every 60 can be a big difference. (that could also be a bit of a gear discussion)

Gear
Guess I'll transition into the gear discussion now. The defense cap has been a PITA for me to deal with. It is possible to put together a blue set of crafted/quest gear that puts you to the cap, but most of the "upgrades" you get offer lower defense for additional dodge/parry/hit. Due to the healers I play with I'm very hesitant to drop below the cap at all unfortunately. 8(

Potentially discussion some of the early tanking gear available and some of the gems/chants/etc. to help at least get closer to the cap might prove useful for some. Additionally, there are some great pieces of gear that provide solid boosts to other stats that might deserve mention. Additionally, it can't hurt to mention how crummy +10% on plague strike is for a set bonus and how it *SHOULD* be changed to rune strike at the very least.

Issues/bugs/etc.
There are a few things I've run into from mechanics to quests that I would have at least liked to have known others ran into. For example, the pet likes to dance with a mob and pull it 20+ yards away sometimes. What happens is your pet goes running at a mob, it aggros it, the mob re-positions, the pet re-positions, etc. and they do this dance and pull *WAY* away from you've. I've had situations where they repositioned right into another group of mobs, I've had them go out of LoS, etc.

It's only an issue when the pet pulls aggro, but since they go running over in cases where you simply lob a DC or IT it can happen quite a bit if you aren't careful. It would have been nice to know about that and hopefully for it to get fixed at some point.

On the quest front I had issues in storm peaks with "the darksysomething". It's the cool quest where you ride the drake around the tower of storms and harpoon your way from mob to mob. Great concept, kinda cool quest, but it hates me. The first time I did it the drake bugged after I harpooned one of them and dropped me to my death. The next time I did it the harpoon wouldn't take me to other drakes. It even took several tries for it to hook one of the fixtures and get back to the platform.

The real issue with the above quest is that it is necessary for Son's rep. That rep will take awhile to grind regardless, so that made everything even more annoying.

Runeforging
Overall I'm pretty bleh on the whole thing. It started off as a great idea, but it really isn't that great. I hit 70 and put FC on my weapon, ground to 80 and I tank with +4% parry.

One of the biggest issues I see is that when duel specs go live runeforging will still be a limitation on deathknights. Other classes will toggle specs/gear and everything and be ready to go. If a deathknight is going from dps to tanking though they'll be down 4% parry if they don't go reforge their weapon. If they do, then they'll be missing some nice self healing and damage when they "spec" back to damage after the fight.

At a minimum I'd like to runeforging to work through the death gate. It's a cool spell/graphic that doesn't see a ton of use and would allow some channeling or lore that enables the user to adjust their runeforged enchants without having to be *AT* a runeforge. This way the DK doesn't step through the portal and need a re-summon back to get the same basic functionality other classes will have via the duel-spec option.

Of course, runeforging can't be mentioned without pointing out that there are no new ones past level 70. It's partly a balance thing and partly a flavor thing, but really it's more of a hassle than a benefit at this point. They could just roll the +parry into frost presence for all I care at this point and let me run FC on my weapon full time. *shrugs*

Stats
Perhaps a bit of discussion about your stats at various points to give people an idea when you were hitting heroics. Some like to mention flat values like 20k armor, 20% dodge+parry or whatever. It'd also prove useful to know the kind of group you run with (again better healers/dps will skew things). Some talk about the different heroics might prove useful to those debating how to get started as well. For example, I've found heroic VH to be fun/quick and sometimes very annoying. 8P

The fact that you don't know which bosses you are getting greatly changes the instance. A couple of the bosses are very easy and a couple can be annoying (especially if you have weaker players in group with you). Talking about which heroics you've found easiest/fastest/hardest/etc. could help give new DKs a feel for where to start.

Things like the above I think would help other DKs get a better idea of where they stand and how they might want to progress. Once they settle into a certain situation it'll be easier to make choices that best fit their situation, but for now many are just starting down the path and information like the above can prove useful.

Re: It's Been Two Weeks

Anonymous — Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:42am

I'll reply to this tomorrow. Just saw it and it's late!

-Myrx

Re: It's Been Two Weeks

Myrx — Mon, 12/01/2008 - 11:08am

Spec: When I tank as Unholy I don't really like to pick up the AMS and AMZ talents. They feel too situational for the boss fights available to us at this point in the expansion. If there were perhaps more spell casting bosses I may reconsider. However, take Gothik for instance, he chain casts Shadow Bolts, but what percent of the fight will he even be shooting me?

Gear: Yes, the defense cap can be annoying. I just recently was able to phase out the Halls of Lightning defense trinket. Jewelcrafting has been a big help, but even if you aren't a jewelcrafter you can add an extra socket to your belt. That's 4 defense right there. If you've read many of my posts I am not an advocate of implementing two-handed tanking weapons. We can get our defense elsewhere. I'd much rather keep the model we have where we tank with DPS weapons.

As for the two-piece remark. I've been trying out Glyph of Plague Strike, and I've gone over two minutes before without having to use Icy Touch and Plague Strike because Scourge Strike was renewing my diseases for me. Rune Strike really is the only logical thing to have on the bonus, but the odds of them caring and changing it are slim to none. It seems like the itemization team is even worse at playing a Death Knight than the people who can't figure out how to turn in their horses in the starting area.

Issues: I haven't had the pet issue that you talk about. However, my pet dies all the freakin' time. It would be nice if he could avoid some AOE damage or something. As for the drake quest I did that quest after being awake for almost three days. I don't remember any issues with it, but I don't really remember it. ;)

Runeforging: I don't really think Death Gating to re-forge your weapon is that bad. If you're in a raid you can get a summon back. My biggest gripe is that the tanking Runeforge isn't very fun. It's static 4% Parry sure, but it's like it isn't there. There's no procs or anything neat. Of course, another option is to attain two similar DPS weapons and use one for tanking and one for DPS/PVP. I am not yet at that point however. I'd like to get a Betrayer of Humanity (who wouldn't?) and I'd still have to do the RUneforge dance with it, but I think it would be worth it.

Stats: My rough stats are:

27.6k HP
28.5k Armor
22% Parry (without BB)
25% Dodge

I don't (and never have) find the heroics much of a challenge. I need one more heroic achievement, and that one is a lot of RNG and doesn't really seem tuned. The times I have had the most fun in heroics were my very first times Stratholme run, and my 20 minute Oculus run. I think we all screamed "YES!" when we killed Eregos with one drake alive at low hp even though we had three minutes left. Easiest heroic is probably Utgarde Keep. The last boss is such a joke, and his signature move is a joke to avoid. The hardest heroic is probably Azjol-Nerub ESPECIALLY if you are planning to try for one of the achievements there. Don't go there with a just-hit-80 healer because all of the fights require a healer with good endurance.

Hope that helps!

Re: It's Been Two Weeks

Anonymous — Tue, 12/02/2008 - 12:38pm

I think AMZ/AMS are very situational. There are days where I don't use it at all. Other times I'm glad I have them. Right now I personally keep them in my spec because on any given day I'm likely to be glad I have them at some point and don't have to re-spec a lot. I think the same holds for the AMS glyph. It's not useful at all depending on what you are doing, but in other spots I'm really glad I have it.

The defense cap is annoying because druids totally ignore it and pal/war get 1h weapons, shields, and an extra enchant slot to address their tanking stats. I've been above it for awhile now, but before getting honored with sons I had to wait on a couple "upgrades" until I was able to gain some defense to offset the losses.

Another gear situation I've run into is a lack of badge gear. I had some free time yesterday and did all heroics except for 2 and realized I was almost out of things to purchase already. Once you've got the defense cap covered the dodge trinket can be great, and the belt is pretty nice, but overall I'm not seeing a lot of things to purchase. *shrugs*

The scourge strike glyph is a blessing/curse kind of thing imo. I already hate that desecration drops before I need to re-plague strike even without it. Then you sometimes run into a situation you describe where you open with PS and don't use it again for quite awhile. I've wondered about maybe having it changed to extending diesease/desecration(possibly) like how starfire works on moonfire. If they'd remove the disease bonus mechanic and adjust the base abilities then I think the current version of the glyph gets more interesting. Though, that still leaves desecration sitting there at 5 points with very low uptime. 8(

At this point calling him a "pet" is being very generous I think. Dies constantly, lacks the AE avoidance, doesn't "rez" with you, etc. I also hate that claw is such a huge portion of his damage. Whenever you toggle claw off to ensure energy for a stun or to use stun/leap in pvp his damage is cut in half. I'd rather his base damage be higher and claw add a smaller amount so you don't gimp him even more without huge micro-managing.

The "bug" is still happening and funny/annoying at the same time. If he has aggro and the mob/him goes to reposition the other will attempt to reposition as well. This happens about a dozen times super quickly and it looks like they are dancing. The downside of this "dance" is that they can head into a pat, into other mobs, etc.

Since I'm bashing the pet I'd also like to say he's worse at getting out of bed than I am in the morning. It's not uncommon for me to fly into a spot, pull a mob and have it below half life before he bothers to get over to the mob. In situations where I kill a mob, mount, kill a mob, etc. his uptime is literally 25% or so. /boggle

Not exactly pet related, but sometimes when I die I don't come back as a ghoul. Doesn't happen all the time and I'm not sure if maybe it's a certain amount of overkill damage or what, but can really be annoying.

Right now I don't care so much about runeforging because usuaully if I'm changing runeforges I'm also changing specs. However, when dual specs go live I'll be in a situation where I swap between DPS/tank specs more fluidly. In those cases it will become annoying. Not every 10 man raid is going to have a lock and not everyone is going to want to wait while you go swap enchants. It's a hassle that others won't face.

The defensive runeforge could use a small proc to help make it "better" or at this point even making a level 80 version that combines the parry + crusader-like proc.

Getting two weapons would help and is possible as long as they aren't unique, but I'd never take a second 2h if anyone else could use it. Simply changing the runeforge requirement eliminates the potential issues and using the death gate could still suffice for lore reasons.

AN and old kingdom can both be annoying (especially depending on the group you are with). Another spot I've found that can be frustrating is the gauntlet in HoS. On my druid I can spam swipe till my finger goes numb and palys can easily keep a consecrate down. For a DK though (especially depending on spec) it's easy to get caught without a solid AE option available. No AE taunt, pest on 10 sec CD, disease pre-req, etc. With great dps it's not much of an issue, but I've ran it a few times where I was ready to scream. Having run with quite a few different specs at this point I think the 30 second base cooldown on DnD is just too much.

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